Episode 12
Shameless Mama Wellness: Redefining Self-Care for New Mothers
Overcoming birth trauma is a vital conversation that needs to be addressed, and Lucinda Koza sits down with perinatal mental health specialist Marilyn Cross Coleman to dive deep into this important topic. Marilyn shares her personal journey of experiencing a traumatic birth and postpartum depression, which inspired her to specialize in helping others navigate similar challenges. They discuss the profound impact of societal expectations on maternal mental health, emphasizing the necessity of self-care and the often overlooked feelings of shame and guilt that mothers face. Marilyn also highlights the effectiveness of EMDR therapy as a treatment for birth trauma, offering hope and healing for mothers who have endured such experiences. The dialogue encourages open conversations among mothers, aiming to foster awareness, validation, and support in the journey toward recovery.
The emotional landscape of motherhood is complex, particularly for those who have navigated the tumultuous waters of birth trauma. Lucinda Koza engages with Marilyn Cross Coleman, a perinatal mental health expert, in an insightful dialogue that dives into the depths of postpartum challenges. Marilyn candidly shares her personal narrative of experiencing postpartum depression after her own traumatic birth, which serves as a powerful lens through which the conversation unfolds. Their discussion emphasizes the importance of recognizing birth trauma as a legitimate experience that warrants attention and care, challenging the stigma surrounding maternal mental health issues.
Marilyn articulates the societal pressures that often compel mothers to suppress their feelings, leading to cycles of guilt and shame. The dialogue highlights the urgent need for a cultural shift that embraces self-care as a fundamental right for mothers, rather than a luxury. They explore the idea that when mothers prioritize their well-being, it not only benefits them but also enriches their families. Through this shared understanding, the episode fosters a supportive environment where mothers can feel empowered to voice their struggles and seek help.
As they delve deeper, Marilyn introduces EMDR therapy as a transformative approach to healing birth trauma, explaining its efficacy in reprocessing traumatic events and facilitating emotional recovery. She emphasizes that healing is not only possible but can lead to profound personal growth—a theme that resonates throughout the episode. Ultimately, this conversation serves as a call to action for women to acknowledge their experiences, seek validation, and foster connections that can lead to healing and empowerment in their motherhood journey.
Takeaways:
- Marilyn Cross Coleman emphasizes the necessity of addressing birth trauma for maternal healing.
- Self-care is crucial for mothers; neglecting it can harm the entire family dynamic.
- Shame and maternal guilt often overshadow women's experiences, making healing more difficult.
- Recognizing that every mother’s trauma is valid can facilitate better support and healing.
- Post-traumatic growth is achievable; sharing experiences can help diminish feelings of isolation.
- EMDR therapy offers an effective treatment for processing and healing from birth trauma.
Transcript
How I.
Lucinda Koza:Ally, this is Lucinda Koza, and I am here with Marilyn Cross Coleman, my guest for today.
Lucinda Koza:Hi, Marilyn.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Hi, Lucinda.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Thank you for having me on.
Lucinda Koza:Of course.
Lucinda Koza:Thank you for being here.
Lucinda Koza:If you don't mind, would you introduce yourself and give a bit of a backstory?
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Sure, sure.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Marilyn Cross Coleman, like you said, I'm a perinatal mental health treatment specialist at PMHC and an lcsw licensed clinical social worker.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I've been a therapist for.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I'm aging myself, but almost 30 years and started perinatal mental health after the birth of my own son, who is now 20, during which I had a very traumatic birth experience.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:He ended up in the nicu and I ended up with a diagnosis of postpartum depression.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So after that experience and all that I went through, I decided to specialize in perinatal mental health.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it's been an amazing experience.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I recently opened a private practice called Shameless Mama Wellness, where I practice telehealth in the state of California.
Lucinda Koza:Wow.
Lucinda Koza:So it's so interesting because we.
Lucinda Koza:I actually published two interviews with you, which is a first for me.
Lucinda Koza:So it was so interesting to see to.
Lucinda Koza:To have your personal experience first and then also see you speak as a.
Lucinda Koza:As an expert.
Lucinda Koza:What was that like?
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We all come to our various fields for a reason, and I think my own experience has given me so much passion in the field.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So it's very satisfying to be able to treat all kinds of postpartum issues and especially postpartum trauma.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I specialize in treating birth trauma.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It is so satisfying to see women heal in the.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:In therapy, we call that post traumatic growth, where you take a traumatic experience and you take from it what you can and you grow as a result.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And for therapists, a lot of that is helping others through some of the challenges that we faced ourselves.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it's a very satisfying experience to be able to do that.
Lucinda Koza:Yeah, I definitely had a traumatic birth experience with my twins.
Lucinda Koza:They're great.
Lucinda Koza:And they're now and they're 19 months, but they spent almost three months in the NICU.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That's devastating.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That's devastating.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:How did you get through that?
Lucinda Koza:I was.
Lucinda Koza:I don't know.
Lucinda Koza:Although it's interesting, I know that there is work that I still need to do and healing that I still need to do.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Because you hit.
Lucinda Koza:You have to hit the ground running.
Lucinda Koza:Even though they were in the NICU immediately, I was a mother and I was going through those changes.
Lucinda Koza:It's.
Lucinda Koza:How can you process the changes of becoming a mother in one instant, but also it being Traumatic.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Absolutely.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It is so hard because we also, the societal expectation is we hit the ground running.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:You're a mom, you have to take care of your kids.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And now especially the kids are in the nicu, they need you even more.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And we're still dealing with the trauma psychologically, the trauma to our body.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it's so hard to create that balance.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:What do I.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:How much energy do I retain for myself and my own healing and how much do I give?
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it's so hard because what we are told is we give and we give and there is nothing else left.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And part of it, I think, is as a society, we need to redefine self care, especially for mothers.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Self care is essential for the entire family.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:If mom has nothing to give, then nobody is receiving in the entire family.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So we really have to reconceptualize that and we have to focus on that self care.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it's so hard as a mom, especially when your baby's need so much from you.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So I'm so sorry you had to go through that.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I know you said they're 19 months and it seems like a long time ago, but it wasn't.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:You'll be healing from that for a really long time.
Lucinda Koza:Yeah.
Lucinda Koza:And I appreciate you saying that because, yeah, like there, there's no way I would get over that experience, obviously.
Lucinda Koza:But like you said, society just expects bounce back.
Lucinda Koza:Like how quickly can you bounce back?
Lucinda Koza:And it's just not realistic.
Lucinda Koza:And it's harmful.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah, it's absolutely harmful.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And having a child in the nicu, I think the devastation of that distance from your child, it was beyond words.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I can't even really put that into words for someone who hadn't felt that separation right after birth when you were supposed to be skin to skin, you were supposed to be fully connected with your child, to have him in a separate place, it was heartbreaking and so painful.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And again, it's hard to put into words for someone who hasn't felt how hard that is.
Lucinda Koza:Yes.
Lucinda Koza:I feel like you're speaking like my brain because that's exactly what I felt.
Lucinda Koza:It's exactly how I felt.
Lucinda Koza:And there was shame.
Lucinda Koza:And just like you said, I was completely unprepared to feel that way.
Lucinda Koza:And it was overwhelming.
Lucinda Koza:I felt like it was my fault that I couldn't keep them inside longer.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And that's the place we always go as moms.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:What could I have done?
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I think part of that is an attempt to control.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Right.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:If I know if there's something that I can do, I can change my behavior, therefore, I will prevent it from happening again.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So it's really the illusion of control.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And at the same time, we are punishing ourselves and we're feeling this pain and the shame that is so difficult to bear.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:But that is the first place we go to.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:My son in utero was diagnosed with.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:He was found to have one kidney.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And they didn't know why he only had one kidney.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And so they.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We had to do a lot of testing to find out what was wrong and what was creating it.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:But the first thing that I thought was, what have I done?
Marilyn Cross Coleman:What did I do?
Marilyn Cross Coleman:What did I not eat?
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Oh, I drank that beer before I knew I was pregnant.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:What did I.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And just searching my past behavior and everything to find a way to make that something that I had done.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I remember that the pain is just like a knife in your chest.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:The shame of the.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And the guilt and trying to determine what you have done to create this situation for which your child is now suffering.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And that feels almost like a universal maternal response.
Lucinda Koza:It does.
Lucinda Koza:And shame, actually, I think, is quite possibly the most insidious thing that one can feel.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:You are absolutely correct.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It is.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It will impact every molecule of our being.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Every.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Everything that we are can be poisoned by shame.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It's incredibly destructive.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I've named my practice Shameless Mama Wellness because my personal and professional goal in life is to eradicate shame from the maternal experience we have when we find out we are pregnant.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We get all the books and we have what to expect when you're expecting and we are prepared and we have all the gadgets we need and we know about sleep training and we know about breastfeeding.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We know all these things.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And the one thing that they never prepare you for is maternal guilt and shame.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I remember when that hit, it hit like lightning and it just never goes away.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I think at the end of the day, we will review what we have done for the day, and we may have been a stellar parent.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:99.9% of the day, we're going to focus on that 0.1% where we raised our voice, we lost our temper, we were not our best selves, and we will perseverate on that.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I got to tell you, my son is 20 and it does not go away.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I will hang up from a conversation with him.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And he's in college.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Oh, why did I say that?
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Oh, that was insensible.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Even though he's called me, he's.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I am incredibly important in his life.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:He calls me for Relationship advice.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:He's a 20 year old.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So I know that I have done a good job.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I know that we are close.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I know we have an amazing relationship.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yet I am going to find the one little thing I screwed up on and I'm gonna play it over and over in my head.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I just, I want to start with moms who are brand new to start addressing this and hopefully when their kids are 20, they have that under control, because I still don't.
Lucinda Koza:Wow.
Lucinda Koza:And so you think that's possible?
Lucinda Koza:Like quite literally, you think that's possible?
Lucinda Koza:You have to.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I think it.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah, I think it is possible.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I think it's possible.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I think it will take a lot of work.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:But I think the more we raise awareness about it and the more we allow women to speak about it, because shame is so insidious, like you said, we don't.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We do everything to keep that from coming to light.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:If I speak it out loud, then everyone will know that I am terrible.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Right.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So when you speak it out loud, you know that everyone else is feeling the same way.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And as soon as we normalize an emotion and experience anything, then we start to understand it and we start to understand how universal it is and how it's simply not valid.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:But it starts with awareness.
Lucinda Koza:It just, it's.
Lucinda Koza:Yeah, it's.
Lucinda Koza:Women face obstacles when coming forward anyway to speak in general.
Lucinda Koza:And on top of that, shame.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It.
Lucinda Koza:Can keep us from reaching out and that can make us cut off from support systems.
Lucinda Koza:And it's shame is terrible.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It is, it is.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And silence is terrible because you're right.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:What keeps us from opening up to supportive and understanding people who will validate us, who will listen, who will hear.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And so silence makes you suffer alone.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So again, it's about awareness.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It's about talking about it.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Let's bring these conversations to awareness.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Let's help one another through it.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And moms can be the best absolute support for other moms.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Let's talk about these things on the playground.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Let's talk about our feelings, really talk about our feelings.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it's all exacerbated by social media.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And we are literally seeing be picture perfect moments in people's lives.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Let's stop doing that, folks.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It's not representative.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:This is not what's really going on in our lives.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:If you're going to post about your life, be honest so that other people can do the same.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I'm having a bad day.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I don't feel great today.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I made a mistake today.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I'm having these kinds of intrusive.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Thoughts.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Let's talk about it.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Because when we misrepresent our lives on social media, everybody else does the same.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And there is no honesty, there is no truth, there is no connection.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Not real connection.
Lucinda Koza:That's an enormous cost.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah, it really is.
Lucinda Koza:It's not worth it.
Lucinda Koza:How close does your trauma feel.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Now?
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Not very close at all.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It's been two decades and I have done so much work around it.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I think you also have to grieve the birth experience that you didn't have.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I don't know how much of that I have done.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I was talking to my niece yesterday, actually, who's going to be starting a family soon, and she said, oh, I just hope my birth experience is what I expect.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And they said, oh, babe, don't have those expectations.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:You can't.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:You only set yourself up for disappointment.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And the picture perfect births that we see and we're made to believe are what we're supposed to experience are very rare.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And so from the get go, we're set up for disappointment.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We have these idealized versions of what births should be.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it is a lot of time and there is magic in the painful moments and all of that.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That a lot of time, it doesn't go to plan.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:A lot of times, breastfeeding, which we are taught to believe is so natural.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:You put baby to breast and they eat and everything is wonderful.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That rarely happens.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And then from the get go, moms are made to feel that they are a failure.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:As a mother, I cannot say, sustain my child.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I cannot do the basic things that I'm supposed to do right down to feeding and sustaining him.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And therefore I am unworthy.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And that's what happens.
Lucinda Koza:It's almost designed.
Lucinda Koza:It's almost like it's designed to be disempowering.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yes.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That to me, empowering two women, which many things are designed to be disempowering to us.
Lucinda Koza:And in the very thing that is actually the most badass thing that we do, we are disempowered.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:At the pinnacle of our power, we are disempowered.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I can't help but think that's not by design.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:A little bit.
Lucinda Koza:I know, yeah.
Lucinda Koza:Your practice, obviously, the fact that you specialize in birth trauma, that I don't think I've heard of that.
Lucinda Koza:Which is outrageous because I.
Lucinda Koza:That's literally what went through and have needed.
Lucinda Koza:And even my husband, I'm sure, needs healing just because he was there.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:No, absolutely.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:You watched his babies go through the same thing that you did.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Thankfully, I think There is a growing understanding or the emergence of an understanding that sometimes we do have these traumatic birth experiences and they need to be validated, they need to be seen, and women need to heal.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That's relatively new.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Right.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We didn't have an understanding of birth trauma.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Really.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It wasn't on our radar for a long time.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I'm so glad it is now because it's been around forever.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So I do think as a society, we're starting to understand these are experiences that have to be healed, they have to be treated in order for moms and babies to bond most effectively, in order for mothers to heal and be able to be present.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So I am glad that people are starting to look at it.
Lucinda Koza:Absolutely.
Lucinda Koza:That post traumatic growth.
Lucinda Koza:That's what you said, right?
Lucinda Koza:That is.
Lucinda Koza:I just heard that term or that phrase like a couple days ago.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Oh, really?
Lucinda Koza:And it.
Lucinda Koza:Yeah, yes.
Lucinda Koza:Which is also bizarre.
Lucinda Koza:But I felt that when I was in.
Lucinda Koza:When they, when my children were in the nicu, it was like I felt like, how do they know I'm their mother?
Lucinda Koza:And I felt all of these, like other people, like, touching them and the nurses and the doctors, and I just, I didn't.
Lucinda Koza:I felt very insecure about my place as their mother.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah, absolutely.
Lucinda Koza:And I.
Lucinda Koza:I think the growth that happened was that I hit bottom at some point and I was just like, damn it, I'm their mother and I have to be, and I am, but I have to feel that way.
Lucinda Koza:I just have to like, no one can take that away from me anymore.
Lucinda Koza:And it was amazing how that growth.
Lucinda Koza:It almost seems like post traumatic growth is like a miracle or something like it just.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:How do you think you arrived at that place?
Lucinda Koza:I think I had no other option.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So you made that decision?
Lucinda Koza:I think I felt because they.
Lucinda Koza:Because of the circumstances and the trauma I felt, they don't know I'm their mom.
Lucinda Koza:No one treats me with any sort of like, respect or.
Lucinda Koza:I don't know.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That's another thing with birth trauma is a lot of it stems from the way hospital staff and they're.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Well meaning.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:They.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I don't think that they mean to treat mothers this way, but a lot of times we lose our autonomy and we do lose that sacred place as mom.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Medical decisions are made without our full consent or knowledge.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Things are not explained.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And our bo.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We lose the sense that our body is ours.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We lose the sense that our children are ours.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So it sounds like that's a little bit of what you are relaying as well.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So I use a trauma treatment for birth Trauma called emdr, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it is an evidence based treatment that works neurobiologically to rewire the brain.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Essentially, in a nutshell, it works very well and very quickly.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:One thing about birth trauma is when we experience birth trauma, a lot of times it will reignite previous traumas in our lives.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So it has a compounding effect and we have to treat the birth trauma and then you see, especially through emdr because it works neurobiologically how neurobiologically this trauma is connected to previous traumas and then intensified.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So that's a treatment that I use that's very effective.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it's another part of being really satisfying as a form of treatment because you do see moms heal.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:A lot of moms will come to me for birth trauma treatment when they are starting IVF because they, their trauma is preventing them from really moving forward.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And they fear they might have had multiple losses, multiple disappointments, and they fear that disappointment and loss.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And the satisfaction level is off the charts there because we can treat the birth trauma, we can move them forward, and then they are more emotionally ready to start this new journey.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So that's a really effective treatment.
Lucinda Koza:Important to differentiate the journeys.
Lucinda Koza:Like this was ivf, now this is pregnancy or I feel like for me, everything just blended together.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It does.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And that's the way trauma works.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We really store trauma in memory networks, in our brains, and they're connected.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I always use the analogy of if you open up your jewelry box and all your necklaces are tangled.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Most women have done that.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We used to take like a safety pin and try to untangle them all.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:But when it's a mass, a tangled mass, it's so hard to tell where one necklace begins and one, then another one begins.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And it's like that with these traumatic memories, they bunch together in these memory networks.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And EMDR especially will start to pull those memories apart and process them.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It also has a domino effect.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So when the memories are held in a memory network and we start to process one, the domino effect will hit the other traumas and process them as well.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So it, but it does it.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Your brain gets a little bit jumbled there when you pile all these things on top of it.
Lucinda Koza:That is such a good metaphor.
Lucinda Koza:It provides hope.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah, there's definitely hope.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:These are things that, that can be healed.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And again, we have to speak about them.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We have to recognize and acknowledge and validate and then we can heal.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:But birthworm is very treatable.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It doesn't women do not have to suffer with it.
Lucinda Koza:That's a beautiful statement.
Lucinda Koza:I feel like.
Lucinda Koza:I feel like I have not heard that.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah.
Lucinda Koza:So that's a very helpful message.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I think a lot of women too are not.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:They don't identify what they experience as traumatic.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I've seen that in a lot.
Lucinda Koza:It was painful.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I wouldn't call it traumatic.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I don't ever try to put words into someone's mouths.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I call it what they, they call it.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:But I also like to introduce if it felt traumatic to you, than it was.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And maybe what you experienced would not be traumatic for somebody else, but it was for you.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And you get to own that and we get to work on healing that.
Lucinda Koza:That is so important.
Lucinda Koza:It's.
Lucinda Koza:I come back to shame.
Lucinda Koza:It seems also, I think women are conditioned to belittle their experiences or with furry and to say, oh, it wasn't that bad.
Lucinda Koza:It's not that bad.
Lucinda Koza:I know that other people have much worse.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yes.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:There's some sort of hierarchy of suffering in life and are not entitled to my suffering because someone had it worse.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Someone will always have it worse.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That does not mean that what we experienced was unimportant.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And with birth trauma, there's this bright side mentality.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Well, look, you have this gorgeous baby.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It's okay.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That's going to cancel out all this pain and suffering.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I wish the world worked that way, but it doesn't.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And moms understand they have a beautiful child and nobody takes that for granted.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:But we also want to be seen for the pain that we've experienced.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We also want to be able to have somebody connect with that and validate that.
Lucinda Koza:Yes.
Lucinda Koza:To feel seen.
Lucinda Koza:After giving birth, I felt so invisible.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah, we do become invisible.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Becomes about our babies.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Just the other day I went into my other niece's house and she has a 2 year old and everybody rushes to pick up the baby.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Oh, we give him kisses.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:How are you?
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I said, I'm sorry.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I just walked right past you and said hi to the baby.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:You're important too.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Give her a kiss.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I love you too.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:But we do, you know, as a society, it's all been all eyes are on baby, which as it should be and baby needs all eyes on them.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:But mom needs to be acknowledged as well.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Especially if she's in pain.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Especially if she has needs that are it being met.
Lucinda Koza:Right?
Lucinda Koza:Yeah.
Lucinda Koza:That is like more trauma.
Lucinda Koza:That can be more trauma if you are dismissed or don't feel seen.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah, absolutely.
Lucinda Koza:But it's such a.
Lucinda Koza:It's such a great hopeful message that you had.
Lucinda Koza:It's not even a message.
Lucinda Koza:It's a fact that.
Lucinda Koza:That it's so easily treatable.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Yeah, yeah.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:No, it really is.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It really is.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:We just need to talk about it more.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So people come in for treatment, right?
Lucinda Koza:Exactly.
Lucinda Koza:And that takes a lot.
Lucinda Koza:It can take a lot.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It certainly can.
Lucinda Koza:I feel like I talked to you.
Lucinda Koza:I feel like I took advantage of your profession, and I talked to you like you're my therapist.
Lucinda Koza:No, I'm sorry.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:No.
Lucinda Koza:I.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That's important.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It is important because you are every woman.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Right.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:You are every woman who has experienced birth trauma.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Let's make that.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Okay.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Let's have those discussions.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Let's talk to everyone and get their opinion and input, whether they're a therapist or not.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:It's important to be honest about those things.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And I appreciate your vulnerability.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:That's hard to say.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And by your doing that, you allow other women to do that as well.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:So I appreciate that.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Thank you.
Lucinda Koza:Thank you.
Lucinda Koza:That's so true.
Lucinda Koza:Thank you for being my guest today.
Lucinda Koza:And maybe we'll do a part two, since there was a part two interview in Authority magazine.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:How silly.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I would love that.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I really appreciate you having me.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:Thank you so much.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:And thank you for talking about this important subject.
Marilyn Cross Coleman:I hope that it inspires other women to do the same.
